An Interview with HAJIME SORAYAMA: A TALE OF ROBOTICS, CHROME, AND SEX
Hajime Sorayama in his own words, has the instincts of a “teenaged boy”, who wakes up every day with the same obsession – girls.
All images of Hajime Sorayama in his studio by Nathalie Scarlette
Or to put it more intellectually he focuses on the perfection of the female form that transcends the boundaries of what’s human, through his illustrated pin-ups of feminine robots [lovingly called “Gynoids”]. His creations are so life-like, so beautiful, and so alluring that it’s actually a bit painful, not to mention even erotically confusing for most audiences; who before seeing his work had only thought of cyborgs or other half-human creatures in the most PG-13 rated way possible.
Calling Sorayama-san a pin-up artist or even the world's greatest living erotic draftsman seems like hype, but it’s actually a vast understatement.
Considering how he’s inspired designer Thierry Mugler [especially the brand’s 1995 Fall collection], the engineers of the SONY AIBO, Kim Jones’ rebrand of Dior Men, and countless collectors turned collaborators from the team at Medicom Toy to BAPE, Sorayama is an artist’s artist. He appeals even to people who don’t care about art and are in it for the boobs/butt extravaganza. His creations, even if you haven’t seen them [yet], have definitely impacted the work/creative worldview of one of your faves.
Hajime Sorayama was integral to designing the Sony AIBO, one of the first fully functional affordable robotic “dogs”, which became popular in Japan and the U.S. It earned the “Good Design” Award in 2002, the highest design accolade in Japan.
Stepping into his cave/studio/living quarters, in an exceedingly nondescript area near Shinagawa feels like venturing into a room-sized treasure box or maybe even his brain itself. Crammed roof to floor with raunchy memorabilia from vintage Betty Page photos, to KAWS polyurethane statues, to actual lace panties hanging clumps from a clothes line [unfortunately we forgot to ask about their origins], all blended indiscriminately together.
The whole display represents where Sorayama’s passions lie, a visual reference framework for the magic that happens on his narrow desk, where he is always working on something. This time, it’s a sketch of a robotic crustacean-like insect, that he says won’t stop nagging him until it’s finished and perfect. Three nearly identical, impeccable sketches lie scattered next to him.
For an artist who's been on the minds and walls of creatives worldwide for over five decades here’s a brief crash course on Hajime Sorayama lore. Born in 1947 in Ehime prefecture, Japan, he grew up in perhaps one of the country's least populated and rural areas, famous for the 1000 year old onsens and woven imabari towels [the best quality towels in the world, allegedly]. It’s an area DEFINITELY not known for boundary-pushing art or an established creative scene in general.
Gynoids in the wild west, and pretty much every other scenario you can think of
After an original stint studying foreign literature and Greek language at Shikoku Gakuin University, Sorayama-san dropped out, shifted gears, and transferred to Chuo Art School, graduating in 1968. After that, Hajime joined an advertising firm, painstakingly illustrating commercial yet technically masterful works, drawing his first robot [an unsexy version] in 1978.
C-3P0 of Starwars, the unexpected inspiration behind Sorayama’s initial Gynoid sexy robots.
The design was based on C-3PO of Star Wars for a Suntory commercial that failed to secure the license to use the actual character. He drew his signature Gynoids the following year in 1979, gradually starting to focus more on his self-driven creative endeavors. Since then, his work is in the permanent collections of the MoMA and Smithsonian Institute.
The cover of Sorayama’s first artbook “Sexy Robot” published in 1980s
A Sorayama designed cover for the Aerosmith album “Just Push Play” [2001].
Aside from the standard museum + white wall format, Sorayama doesn’t shy away from oddball collaborations, whether it be the cover art for Aerosmith's 2001 album Just Push Play the robotic creatures in the movie Space Truckers [that earned a 15% on Rotten Tomatoes], to the seemingly obligatory Bearbrick series that’s a rite of passage for every renowned artist. Plus, he’s ventured into the world of wearable art; a shoe design with Japanese sneaker brand Mizuno, apparel with BAPE, and a capsule collection with Richardson.
Sorayama wearing his merch for a collab with Richardson
A Sorayama deisgned cyborg suit for the cult sc-fi action movie Space Truckers
Richardson X Sorayama gear shot in Sorayama’s studio
The latest project Sorayama will unveil is with impresario Tokyo gallerist Shinji Nanzuka, an exhibition titled “Space Traveler” featuring illustrations and life sized statues shown across three of his Tokyo venues: NANZUKA UNDERGROUND ,Nanzuka 2G and 3110NZ by LDH Kitchen from April 27th to May 28th.
sabukaru editors Ora, Jasmina,Ken, and founder/editor in chief of sabukaru Bianco, wandered into Sorayama’s studio almost a bit stunned and vaguely paralyzed. Sorayama is a personal hero of the sabukaru team’s, so entering felt a bit like trespassing into a holy shrine, needless to say we gawked at the sheer breadth of his collection [some of it rarely published] hanging on the walls and of course Sorayama himself.
From left to right: sabu translator Ken, Hajime Sorayama, sabu editor Jasmina, photographer Nathalie, and sabu writer Ora.
A key shot of Sorayama’s beautifully chaotic studio, where some previously unreleased pieces [possibly due to censorship] are on display.
He’s dressed in a T-shirt, jeans, and thick glasses, with a wickedly amused smile plus a sense of humor to match. Dirty jokes fly around. None of his answers are canned or premeditated, even though he's been interviewed probably over a hundred times. Sorayama seems to chuckle to himself as we sidestep through the labyrinth of his collections. Much respect is given to him as he sets the mood of the interview, which is more like a free-flowing conversation and a mildly interesting interlude to a day that he’d otherwise spend drawing nonstop. Nonetheless, he’s an open book, friendly, and a source of frank wisdom.
Hajime Sorayama is unsuprisingly a pretty funny guy,
Sorayama-san started the interview by saying “if you don’t ask interesting questions. You’ll get no interesting answers”. We accepted the challenge, touching upon everything from the future of cyborg-human relations, censorship, and of course his never-ending quest for aesthetic perfection.
Hey Sorayama-san, thank you for taking the time to chat with us today! This is a bit of a strange question to ask considering you're a key figure in Japanese contemporary art, but imagine someone emerged from a coma with no knowledge about who you are. How would you simply introduce yourself and what you do to the sabukaru network?
今日はお忙しい中お時間いただき誠にありがとうございます。世界的にも名を馳せる日本屈指のアーティストにこういったことをお伺いするのもなんですが、まだご存じでない方に向けて自己紹介をお願いしてもよろしいですか？簡単な生い立ちからこれまでのご経歴など教えてください。
I guess you could say I’m an artist, or like the mixture of one and a painter. I’ll spare you the more detailed information about me because you can look it up, but I feel as though I’m like Don Quijote; always fighting losing battles. It’s like I’m heading towards the windmill, and for example, things from the past like my pin up girls, and things that influenced me as a kid, I still haven’t grown out of yet. One might consider paint to be obsolete, but I find using these things to create light, transparency, and reflection, as my life’s work, you know?
細かいデータは調べたらわかるから省くけど、自分は基本的に負け戦に向かって行くドン・キホーテなんですよ。負けることをわかってても風車に立ち向かうような人で、例えばピンナップ・ガールだとか、過去のものがそうなんだけど、小さい頃に影響されたものから未だに脱皮できていない。絵具なんかも道具としてはもう化石じゃん？だけどそういったもので光と透明感だったり反射を描写するのが私のライフ・ワークになるんです。
You grew up in Imabari, Ehime, a place a member of the team visited about a week ago. It's very quiet, rural, and definitely not considered an artistic hub. What was it like growing up and did it shape your character or views on art in some way?
先日チームメンバーも訪れたみたいなんですが、ご出身の愛媛県今治市について教えてください。静かでアートとは一見縁がなさそうなところで過ごした幼少期の記憶は、今アーティストとしてどう生きていますか？
I couldn’t have hated it more, because it was a place where cultures died. I suppose it’s similar to the feeling of kinshinzouo/ 近親憎悪 [despising people because of small differences, although one shares many similarities with the enemy]? I couldn’t stand how fossilized the culture was, and wanted to go to bigger cities that were thriving. I always imagined cities like Osaka and Tokyo would be different, but I couldn’t have been more wrong. New York and London felt the same, but I settled for Tokyo, since I felt at ease here.
文化果つる所だったから、嫌で嫌でしょうがなかった。近親憎悪に近いものかな？それで小さい頃から化石みたいな文化圏から遠く離れた都会に早く行きたかった。脱出したかったのよ。都会と言ったら大阪とか東京を思い浮かべてたんだけど、それが行ってみたら別に大したことがなくて。世界のニューヨークだったりロンドンにしても同じことで、最終的に一番気楽な東京に居ることにしたの。
Sorayama at his drawing table, where impeccable sketches are scattered.
What were your first interactions with art, despite coming from a small town? There must be something that you connected with?
今にも今治市から飛び出したい気持ちでいっぱいだった幼少期ですが、その中で一番最初にアートと触れ合った記憶などありましたら教えてください。
I can’t say I remember. I grew up in a place filled with ancient relics and remains. I always thought I didn’t want to be like the people from my own town, and I suppose that’s what gave me the energy to make art.
ありません。過去の遺物しかありませんでしたから。でも逆に周りの死んだような人たちを見てて「こういう風になっちゃいけないな」っていう気持ちが凄いエネルギーに転換されました。
What kinds of things did you idolize or obsess over as a teenager, and did it pave the way for what you would do later as an artist?
10代の頃はどういったものに興味がありましたか？どういったものに憧れて、どういった記憶が今も尚アーティストとして活動する中で生きていますか?
All the boys on this planet have the same interests as teenagers. Motor vehicles, dinosaurs, weapons, sharp weapons, and guns. As far as I know, these are things we will forever idolize. People tend to grow out of these things so they can better integrate into society, but it rather takes a whole lot of energy to remain interested close to being 70 years old. I'm what people call a premature baby. I’ve always been this way, and people start to feel bad enough about it that they call it having a personality.
10代の男の子の興味って、世界共通なんだよね。はしかみたいなもので、例えば乗り物とか恐竜もそうなんだけど、あと武器だとか、そういうものって男の子にとって永遠のアイドルなんですよ。その頃に興味を持ったものから脱皮するのを社会性っていうんだと思うんだけど、70歳になった未だに興味を持ち続けているというのは凄いエネルギーがいることなんですよ。結局未熟児なんですよ。その未熟児が長いこと好きなことを続けていると、それを個性って言い換えられる。
As a kid, you drew pretty much fanatically. Yet, during your first couple years of university, you studied Greek language and foreign literature. What drove this decision?
幼い頃は常にスケッチやドローイングをされてたと伺っています。その傍ら、大学ではギリシャ語と外国文学を専攻されてたと。どういった経緯でこういった方向転換をなされたか教えてください。
Actually, I didn’t draw a whole lot as a kid. People make up random facts about me, but I was as dumb as any other kid growing up. I suppose it makes for a better story, but none of that is true, and I turned out to be another old geezer [laughs].
幼い頃はスケッチングやドローイングはしてないです。色んな人が勝手に伝説をでっち上げてるだけで、小さい頃は普通のクソガキでした。その方が面白いからそう書かれるだけで、昔は普通の子供で、今も普通のクソ爺です《笑》。
Did you actually study Greek literature or is this another lie conjured by the internet?
大学ではギリシャ語学を専攻されてたのも勝手な作り話ですか？
This is actually true, and a novelist called Makoto Oda is the guy that got me interested in everything Greek culture. I think I read his book Nandemomiteyarou [1961] when I was in high school…He preached about how amazing Greek culture is, and a university near my house, Shikoku Christian University, happened to have a Greek language program. So, since I worshiped Oda very much,I decided to enroll. As cruel as fate can be, the only professor that taught that program flew back to the U.S. as soon as I got in. I couldn’t believe the audacity, that takes balls [laughs]. But I suppose it was good that I didn’t have to go to Greece [laughs].
The school was run by this awful group of people, and I was messing around too much, so I got kicked out of school. When I was thinking of my next move, I faintly recalled how people seemed to like my sketches, so I decided to study graphic design.
これは本当で、小田実っていう小説家がいて、その人は書いた『何でも見てやろう [1961]』っていう本を高校生ぐらいの時に読んだのかな？それで「ギリシャは素晴らしい」っていうことを読んで、うちの近所の四国学院大学にギリシャ語学科っていうのがあって、小田実を崇拝してたもんだから入学してみたものの、その途端にそこの学科の教授がアメリカに帰っちゃったのよ。「どうするんだ、馬鹿野郎」と思って《笑》。ギリシャに行くことにならなくて良かったんだけどね《笑》。
四国学院大学っていうのも米国南部長老協会ってどうしようもないところがやってて、好きな事やってたから放校処分同然で追い出されたのよ。それで「絵のことで褒められたことあったなあ」って薄っすら記憶があったからグラフィック・デザインを勉強することにした。
Christian motifs alongside R rated details are a staple of Sorayama’s work, perhaps a reference to his experiences with Christianity during his university days.
there’s a Greek myth you may be familiar with about Pygmalion, a sculptor who was trying to overcome the flaws he found in mortal women by creating statues of them. Eventually, he made a statue so perfect that he fell in love with it. Do you feel your illustrations are similar in that way, trying to create the perfect woman even if it’s not human? Are you ever at risk of falling in love with your creations?
ギリシャ文学では、不完全なる生身の女性の欠陥を克服しようと理想の女性の彫像に励んだピグマリオンの話が有名ですが、空山さんのイラストレーションにも近しいものを感じます。空山さんご自身は自分の創造物に惚れたことはありますか？また、空山さんの創り出すセクシーロボットの数々にはどういった意味が込められていますか？
Yes, absolutely. That's one story in Greek literature I am interested in…the concept of “Pygmalion” and even pseudo Pygmalions found in movies like Blade Runner [1982], which is a retelling of it. A lot of movies are really “Pygmalion” at heart, even My Fair Lady [1964], and too much of reality often leads to the waning interest in what’s considered ordinary sex. That’s why we often feel the urge to escape reality. I often draw and create with the idea of Pygmalion in mind. Actually, I think anyone who’s into making sculptures and dolls is somewhat Pygmalion-esque. Really, we’re just tired of reality, you know? For example, let’s say I come across a girl I like. I immediately think about how I can fix her in some way. I think to myself how I can tweak certain elements to bring her closer to perfection.
A Sorayama sketch of Audrey Hepburn circa her appearance in the film my Fair Lady. Perhaps a reference to his affinity with Pygmalion.
I quite often buy paintings and sculptures by talented artists with no marketability. I buy them out of the goodness of my heart to help them, but I fix most of them. Even if I owned the Mona Lisa [1503] by Leonard da Vinci, I would most probably fix it. He continued working on his masterpiece for 15~30 years after it was technically done, and I don’t know how else to say how that’s what creativity is all about. Everybody wants to create a better version of reality, according to their liking. Don’t you ever get the urge to change your past/childhood? Given the chance, everyone would. It’s no different from that.
ありますよ。『ブレードランナー[1982]』が好きなんだけど、これもピグマリオンの逸話をベースにしてるじゃん。他の映画だと『マイ・フェア・レディー[1964]』なんかもそうだけど、現実を見すぎると普通の異性への興味がなくなるわけですよ。だから現実逃避してそっちの方に逃げたくなる。私の作品なんかはよくピグマリンのことを描いてますよ。人形を造る人は大体ピグマリンの話をベースに現実からの逃避場所を作ってるんだと思う。現実にちょっと辟易しちゃってて。例えば好きな女の子なんかができても「あそこを直したい」だとか「ここを直してくれたらもっとグレードが上がるのになあ」みたいな風になって。
私は才能があるけど社会性がなかったりする作家さんの絵だったり彫刻を、助けようと思ってよく買うんですけど、それも自分で直しますね。だからレオナルド・ダ・ヴィンチの『モナ・リザ[1503]』が手に入っても多分直しちゃいますよ。あの人も15~30年かけて直し続けてたんだけど、それがクリエイティブなの。現実をもっと良くしたいの、自分の好み通りに。自分の過去だったり幼い頃のことだとか、本当にできるものなら直したいことっていっぱいあるでしょ？それと同じ。
Why did you get kicked out of school? Did it have something to do with you publishing a raunchy magazine called Pink Journal while still in university?
何故大学から放校処分を受けたんですか？
I came up with this thing called the Pink Journal [1967], an erotic magazine that poked fun at professors [laughs]. I worked on it with my friends, and we decided to spread the flier around the entire campus while no one was around. I happened to snuck into a women’s bathroom and I believe I was the only guy who had done that ever [laughs]. The student council and the entire school body turned their backs against me, and the rest is history. I got the bad end of the stick, but I suppose I deserved it.
『Pink Journal[1967]』ってものを出して。学校の先生たちを思いっきり馬鹿にしたのよ《笑》。先輩と一緒に出したんだけけど、学校のチャペルから人がいなくなるタイミングがあって、その時に自分たちで作ったフライヤー、当時は新聞って呼んでたんだけど、それを学校中に貼って回ったの。それで女子トイレの中に入って貼ったんだけど、多分中に入ったのは私だけだったの《笑》。案の定生徒会から職員まで全員敵に回しちゃって、酷い目にあわされたの。まあ、酷い目っていうか当たり前の対応をされたんだけど、私からしたら酷い目ことをされたのよ。
What kind of contents were in the Pink Journal?
『Pink Journal』の画像をネットで調べても出てこないんですけど、実際どういったものを描かれたものなんですか？
I don’t want to get into detail since I know for a fact this won’t make it into the article [laughs]. But the reason I got busted in the first place was because I drew a small pin-up girl. People instantly knew it was me because no one in the entire campus had the technical skill to draw anything like it [laughs]. A blessing disguised as a curse, I suppose [laughs].
I drew inspiration from shinrabansho [the universe], because I knew it would piss off the monotheist Christians that denied everything except for truths told in their scripture. The Southern Presbyterian Church is this cult-y group that came out of the deep south, and they have a lot of money, hence the reason they were able to build a school in Japan, as well. One of the professors there used to teach English at my high school, and that’s why I even considered going to Shikoku Gakuin University. They’re from a place that’s so deep south, I don’t think the average American knows about them, actually.
Sorayama’s art even from the beginning of his career was met with strong censorship.
どうせ喋ったって記事にならないからいいよ《笑》。そもそもなんで私が絵を描いた張本人であることがバレたかというと、挿絵みたいなお姉ちゃんも描いてたんだけど「学校中でこんな絵を描けるのは空山しかいない」って悟られてバレちゃったの《笑》。自分の才能にしっぺ返しを喰らうこともあったね《笑》。
森羅万象、つまり全てのことからインスピレーションを得たんだけど、カチンコチンなクリスチャン、つまり一神教で全否定的な彼らからしたら凄く腹が立つことなのよ。米国南長老教会っていうのがカチンコチンで、どちらかというとキリスト教の中でもオカルトっぽい感じのところなんだけど、お金は持ってるのよ。だから日本に大学を造ることもできた。今治の高校に通ってた頃にそこの教授が英語を教えに来てたんだけど「面白いのかなあ」と思って四国学院大学に興味を持ったのよ。アメリカでもディープ・サウスにある教会だから、普通にニューヨークの人もわからないと思う。
Censorship from social media platforms like Instagram has affected work artists like yourself can share with a wider audience. As an artist who focuses on pin-ups, what has your experience been with censorship? Has there ever been an incident where you thought censorship of your work had gone too far?
インスタグラムなどのSNSプラットフォームで不適切なコンテンツの削除などの検閲が激化していた時期がありましたが、空山さんもこの被害者にあたるかと思います。やはりピンナップ・ガール風の作品が印象的なアーティストとして、こういったことで多くの人に自分のアートを見せづらくなったことに想うことはありますか？
I get my content removed all the time, and I’m starting to think I'm on a blacklist. People often call me a victim, but I've never thought of myself that way. On the contrary, the more stressed I am, the greater the urge to fight back. For example, Go Nagai, one of the most legendary manga artists, was being harassed by the PTA [Parent Teacher Associations in Japan] for "showing a naked woman to children," but he converted that negative energy into inspiration, and had the production company clear his Cutie Honey [1973-1974] animation series, by simply coloring over the nude body. Similarly, there are plenty of ways to get around the Instagram algorithm [that automatically censors content on Instagram]. We overestimate them, but the AI can be pretty dumb, you know [laughs].
しょっちゅうコンテンツを削除されるんだけど、ブラックリストに載ってるんじゃない？よく被害者呼ばわりされるんだけど、自分ではそう思ったことはなくて。反対にストレスがあればあるほど闘争本能が湧くのよ。例えば永井豪さんなんかは「裸のお姉さんを子供に見せた」ってPTAなんかに文句をつけられてたんだけど、逆にそれをエネルギーに変えて『キューティーハニー[1973-1974]』ってアニメを裸の上に色を付けて制作会社からクリアを出してもらったの。基本的に裸なんだけど、現代に置き換えてもそういった方法でAIからクリアを出してもらう方法はいくらでもある。結局馬鹿だもん《笑》。
Has there ever been an incident where you thought censorship of your work had gone too far?
今までに検閲の激化によってご自身の作品を修正させられたことはありますか？
My work has been censored by PR teams and for editorial purposes , but I never fix my own work. There’re plenty of paintings I can’t show to the world [but exist in his studio]. It’s easier to get away with erotic things without being censored if I change the characters into robots [laughs]. To some degree, that’s why I’ve established this style of mine as a signature, you know.
The reason why I started drawing sexy robots is because Suntory asked me to do an advertising job at first, and the piece right behind you is one [Sorayam points to a painting] of the firsts. This is going to be one of the main pieces for an upcoming exhibition, but I also drew two other sketches. When I submitted the sketches, they told me I "can't do such audacious poses." But one of them got the green light by the higher ups, and that was the one I drew in the style I now call my own. When people look at sketches without the chrome texture, they think of naked bodies. But by simply replacing the texture of my girls with chrome/metal, people think of it differently. Although I never intended to get paid for it, they ended up paying for it. The lines and curvatures invite the viewer to imagine naked women, but replacing and tweaking a few things can make it seem “futuristic.”
The painting right behind you was created 30~40 years ago, yet people can’t seem to get enough of it. It leads me to believe I’m light years ahead of the game. I think I created that in 1975, so I guess everyone is half a century behind [laughs].
いっぱいありますよ。広告だとかエディトリアルに使う際は修正しますけど、私個人の為の絵は修正したことないし、発表できない作品もいっぱいある。でもそういったメディアのハードルをクリアするのに一番手っ取り早い方法がロボットに置き換えること《笑》。そういう意味でロボットのスタイルが確立してる部分は多少なりともあると思います。
なんでセクシーロボットを描き始めたかというと、最初は広告の仕事の依頼がサントリーから来たんですけど、その時に描いたのが後ろのそれ。今度の個展なんかでもその後ろの絵がメイン・ビジュアルになるんだけど、これ以外に二つ描いたのよ。諸々スケッチを提出したら「こんな大胆なポーズ駄目だよ」って言われて、別のものが通ったんだけど、それが今でいう自分のスタイルで描いたもの。実際にロボットの質感で描いてみたらそんなにわいせつ感もなかったし、結局ノーギャラのつもりで描いたものも通っちゃってギャラを払ってくれたしね。線だけだとみんな勝手に裸を想像するから、こういう質感に置き換えるとエッチな感じからちょっと離れて「未来的」だとかって言われちゃうのよ。この後ろの絵も思いっきりエッチなんだけど、取材なんかでも通っちゃうの。
この後ろの絵なんかも30~40年前に描いてるんだけど、未だにスポットライトが当たってて思うのは、世の中が遅れ過ぎてる。1975年に描いてるんだけど、世の中半世紀近く遅れてる《笑》。
Attitudes about how women are portrayed in media and art have shifted in the past decade, which has led to some debate about the intended meaning of your pieces. Some believe your work hyper-sexualizes women, what is your response to those criticisms? Are they missing the point of your work or is there some validity to these comments?
昨今メディアでの女性の描写の変化によって、空山さんの作品集を批判する声も挙がっている印象を受けています。こういった批判の声に対して想うことはありますか？
I have always been asked if my work is art or porn. To be honest, I make porn. However, depending on your experience, knowledge, and poise you can see it as art. If you have none of that…it's porn [laughs]. But to be quite honest, it’s porn [laughs]. I want to draw porn, and I’m always thinking of ways to get around being crucified by the media; it’s a strategy. I’ve just been able to do what I’ve been doing for so long because I love what I do.
昔から聞かれるんだけど「空山の絵はアートなのかポルノなのか？」っていう問いに対して、私は知性や経験だとか教養によってはアートに見えるし、その辺のものを持ち合わせていない人間にはポルノにしか見えない《笑》。そういう風に答えを返してきました。でも本当はポルノ《笑》。ポルノを描きたいんだけど、どうやったらメディアの批判から逃れるかを常に考えてて、戦略敵に。ロボットだとか光物それから反射するものが自分としては一番面白いと思える事だから、未だに続けてこられてるんです。
A Sorayama Gynoid made 3-D, his next ventures often focus on sculpture.
Japan in general has a much more open attitude towards robots being integrated into general society and even a recent phenomenon of people forming romantic relationships with inanimate objects or characters, most notably android popstar Hatsune Miku. What’s your opinion on this surge of human-robot romantic relationships? For example, is it a harmless fetish, a legitimate relationship, or just the future of romantic relationships in a technologically advancing world?
世界的に注目を集める初音ミクや増加傾向にある二次元キャラやAIと結婚する若者から伺えるように、他文化と比べて、日本はロボットやAIの社会的統合に対する抵抗が然程ないように感じます。空山さんご自身は人間ロボット間の恋愛についてどう思っていますか？
Japan has always been polytheistic far before coming in contact with the Europeans, therefore are more culturally liberal about human relationships. Monotheistic cultures worship their gods by creating statues, but also deem it sacrilegious to create things in the vein of their god, hence making androids/humanoids is taboo. We Japanese people don’t really care, and we’d rather have fun, you know.
A BDSM scene, with Sorayama’s design for the SONY AIBO making a cameo appearance.
But even among us, there are conservative people who believe differently. I was actually talking to that guy from Studio Ghibli…Hayao Miyazaki around the time where I made the Sony AIBO [a fully functional; robotic dog that Sorayama designed]. The people from Sony gave him one and Miyazaki said “we have dogs, why do we need to create an imaginary one [laughs]?” But funnily enough, they’re okay with messing around with software and AI. I mean I guess taboos come in different shapes and forms across cultures.
We tend to overestimate the power of AI, but truthfully, these things can’t process the limitless potential of human beings. I mean what of literature, or even the concept of reading between the lines? And considering how most AI softwares is made in the West, I think it’s a critical issue that everything is based on the English language. It’s the most basic and on the nose language, it literally has no nuance. I suppose it works since science is based on hard evidence and convincing data, but as an artist, I often flirt with the idea of what ifs and maybes. Scientists are so obsessed with what’s under control now, but aren’t we supposed to think of what’s to come as well [laughs]? I can’t prove anything, but I have a gut feeling for things.
A long time ago, coal miners brought yellow canaries with them to work. The deeper the mine the thicker the carbon dioxide levels got, so people used to die as a result. But people figured out yellow canaries had a sense for these things, and they scrammed or flew away as soon as they felt any danger. The yellow canaries are a symbol of cultural leaders, and someone has to fill that position, you know?
Like now, the situation with Putin and the entire world is hopeless. Although both sides have things to say, the can’t help themselves but completely disregard their opposition; they deny their very existence even before they can even respect them. As individuals, we live by the thought of seizensetsu [the ancient belief from China that humans are originally made of good], but when it comes to being a countryman, we suddenly live by the thought of seiakusetsu [the opposite of seizensetsu]. It’s alarming how a lot of people can blatantly say things like “kill Putin!” but you have to realize, he’s also only human. War is merely the result of misunderstanding. Things would smoothen out if Putin can just admit to his mistakes, but looking at how Russia is surrounded by their opposition, I can also understand how things aren’t as simple as that.
Hatsune Miku of Vocaloid fame, an extremely popular virtual idol, who has a percentage of a her fan base sexually attracted to her and even “married to her” through unoffical ceremonies.
I also think android idols like Hatsune Miku and AI are good, and I have adopted them because they are a trend in the world, but I will never deny them. If I don't like it, I can just ignore it, but the world considers even that a bad thing. I don't want to deny anything even if I’m not particularly into it. I have been going my own way for as long as I can remember, and I can only hope more people start accepting things rather than blatantly denying them.
A Sorayama rendering of Miku Hatsune, in his own easily recognizable style
日本人は多神教だから、色んな価値観があってリベラルなんですよ。一神教は偶像を造って崇拝したり、ヤーウェの創造した人間と似たもの、つまりヒューマノイド／アンドロイドをタブーとしてるんだけど、日本はその辺のことは面白がって造ったり、「いいじゃないか」って思えるんですよ。かと言ってそんな日本の中にも保守的な人はいっぱいいて、例えばソニーとAIBOを創った時も、ジブリの宮崎駿さんに「犬がいるんだからなんでこんなものを創るんだ」って言われて《笑》。そういうコンサーバティブな人はどこにでもいるんだよ。AIだったりソフトウェアは作っていいけど、具体的に形のあるものだと神の掟に叛くっていうの？タブーって人種によって全然違うんだと思う。
AIなんかは所詮人間の可能性を認めてないから、行間とか文学というところの？それに加えてちょっと致命的なのよ、英語って。単純明快過ぎるのよ。細かいニュアンスがないの。科学と文化の違いなのかな？我々は文化のあるところにいるわけだけど、化学は理論整然として説得力のあるエヴィデンスを基にやっていかないと科学にならないじゃない？私のスタンスは「なんとなく気持ちが悪い」だとか「なんとなく破滅の方向に向かってるんじゃないか」って思いながらやってるけど、学者は「今のところ大丈夫」みたいなことを言う。でもこれからのことを考えていかなきゃ駄目でしょ《笑》？私自身は証明できないけど何か感じるのよ。
昔、炭鉱の中に黄色いカナリアを連れて行ってたのよ。奥に行けば行くほど二酸化炭素が充満してるから人間は死んじゃうじゃん？でもヤバいと思ったら先に逃げるカナリアと行くことによって命が保障された。その黄色いカナリアこそ文化の旗頭の象徴であって誰かがやらなきゃいけない。今だって世界中がプーチン大統領と喧嘩してるけど、考えてみれば双方言いたいことがあるにも関わらず双方で全否定するから何も解決しない。否定をする前に存在を認めるっていう発想がないのよ。人は性善説で生きてるんだけど、国同士になると性悪説じゃない？下手したら「核戦争になる前に早くプーチンを殺せ！」っていう人間も少なくはないはずなんだけど、プーチンもまた一人の人間。だから間違いから始まるのよ、戦争って。プーチン大統領も自粛すればいいんだけど、地球儀からロシアを見たら周り全部西側諸国になるじゃない？隣のウクライナとも仲良くできない、完全に四面楚歌状態で、中国も何だか相手にしてない。
初音ミクとかAIに関しては私も良いと思ってるし、世の中の流れだから取入れたりもしてるんだけど、否定だけは絶対しないの。嫌であればスルーすればいいだけのことなんだけど、世の中それすら悪とみなすからなあ。何はともあれ否定だけはする気はしない。ゴーイング・マイ・ウェーで私もやってきたから否定だけはしないでほしい。。
Have you ever dreamed of making a sexy interactive robot?
体験型のセクシーロボットを造ってみたいと思った事はありますか？
I myself find comparisons of myself to Pygmalion interesting, but I don't think I'd want to experience his fate myself [ex: by literally falling in love with an inanimate object]. I have studied various things related to sex such as S&M and fetishes in my own way, but I don't want it to hurt when I practice it [laughs]. I don't want it to hurt when I have sex. Just the thought alone is enough to make my dick wilt.
A lot of foreigners ask me why I don't draw men or Japanese people, but no one would buy them if I did. I was a regular contributor to Penthouse for about 10 years, and one of the centerfolds was called Pet of the Year. Playboy had a Pet of the Month, and there were all kinds of people in it, but when it came to Penthouse, only the most perfect looking barbie dolls made it to the list.
私自身ピグマリオンの逸話は面白いと思ってるけど、自分で体験しようとは思わない。それなりにSMとかフェティッシュみたいなセックスにまつわる色んなことは勉強してるんだけど、実践した時に痛いのは嫌だ《笑》。お姉さんが痛くしただけで私のチ〇コ萎えちゃうよ《笑》。
結構外国の人に「なんで男や日本人を描かないんだ」って聞かれるんだけど、そういうの描いたって誰も買わないじゃない？ペントハウスでレギュラーとして10年ぐらい出してたんけど、その中でセンターフォールドでペット・オブ・ザ・イヤーっていうのがあったの。プレイボーイなんかではペット・オブ・ザ・マンスとかやってて色んな人が入ってたんだけど、ペントハウスのになるとバービーみたいなのしか出てこなくなるの。
You’ve been working as an artist for over 50 years, and your work has evolved alongside advancements in technology and changes in societal attitudes toward sex and gender. That being said, what do you think is the "new frontier" in the development of erotic art and how does that affect the newer works you are creating?
50年にわたってアーティストとして活動されている中で、技術発展や世間一般の性に対する考えの変化と共に空山さんの作風も進化している印象を受けています。これからのエロティック・アートについて想うことはございますか？また、エロティック・アートのこれからに対する考えは空山さんの作風にどういった影響をもたらしていますか？
Nothing will change. It’ll always be how it’s been. Desires for food and sex are good parts of life. And it’s wrong to deny those natural desires. It’s tricky talking about sex on print, so I will tell this story using examples with appetite. Gourmet people try eating anything from toxic to unbelievably delicious food. They need to know the taste of bad food, in order to know what’s good. And this same concept applies to sex as well. Few people are interested in abnormal sex, and that’s why they are a minority I’d say. Everybody should have at least an understanding of these things, but of course they don’t even have to try themselves. Cultures stagnate if people have the mindset to reject new things before they know anything about them. It’s okay if you decide not to accept something, but you can’t deny it or even people who believe in it.
I think how people view sex won’t change further in the future. If humans can’t feel their sexual desire, we wouldn’t be here today. I mean there’s no getting around the fact that we’re mammals, so it’s only natural we love breasts, right? We all grew up sucking the breasts of our mothers, and before even realizing it, we move on to suckling other breasts, so how can you possibly not like breasts [laughs]? Side note, I’ve recently been into paper bras, as well. Funny enough, there’s not a word that describes an expert of sex, like a gourmet for food lovers. Sex is as valid of a desire as food, yet anyone who openly admits to loving sex gets beaten up and outcasted by society, and I think that’s nonsense.
今まで通りだと思いますよ。人間にとって性欲と食欲は絶対に善なんですよ。それを否定したりするのは間違ってるじゃん？セックスでいうと記事にしにくいから食欲の方で例えると、グルメの人たちも毒を試してみなきゃいけないんですよ。美味しいものを知ってると言うことは不味いものも体験しなきゃ駄目なのよ。アブノーマルを好む人間いるわけで、そういった人たちもいるということを理解しようとしないと文化って育たないのよ。だから受け入れようが受け入れまいが、そういった現実もあるという知識を蓄えることは大切。
これに関しては永遠に変わらないと思う。性欲がなくなったら人類滅びちゃうもの。私がよく言うのは、人間所詮哺乳類なんだからオッパイが好きで当たり前。物心着いた頃からお母さんのチューチューしてて、気付いたら違うお姉ちゃんの吸ってるんだから、好きになっちゃうでしょ《笑》。それで最近思うのは紙ブラも良いなって。でも面白いことにセックスが好きな人は変態で少数派と言われるんだけど、グルメの人は無別の対象なんですよ。食欲を究極に追及する人間がいるんだから性欲の求道者がいてもおかしくないんだけど、そういった人たちは袋叩きにされる。それはおかしい。
What does a day in the life of Hajime Sorayama look like?
空山さんの最近の一日のルーティーンを教えてください。
I really can’t say since I’d be in danger of getting arrested [laughs]. I need some noise to create my work, or to get interviewed like this too. Noise helps me get back on my feet to society/society. The noise of TV is a good example. And this chiming clock right here, rings every hour. [Points to a clock above him.]
In a day, I spend roughly half of it at home, including sleeping time. For me, it's time to regain my social skills. People often ask me the stupid question, "What do you do for a change?" which is a stupid question, but I don't have one because I'm always thinking about work. But I never feel stressed, I always look forward to it. So when I wake up in the morning, the picture I'm about to paint says, "Hurry up and do this, do that.” Truly, I am a slave to my work [laughs]. So I work the other half of the day, heaving and groaning [laughs].
発表できません。捕まっちゃいます《笑》。公開できることで言うと、ノイズがないと駄目なのよ。ちょっとした邪魔だとかがないと、絵だけ描いてたら永遠に没頭しちゃってグチャグチャになっちゃうの。制作現場では社会性を取り戻すためにテレビの雑音が必要なの。そこのオルゴール時計も一時間置きにベルが鳴るように設定してる。
一日で言うと寝る時間も含めて大体半分は自宅で過ごしてるのよ。私にとってそれは社会性を取り戻すための時間なんです。よく「気分転換になにします？」って馬鹿な質問をされるんだけど、常に仕事のことを考えてるからないのよ。でもストレスに感じる事はなくて、いつも楽しみなんです。だから朝起きて時に描きかけの絵が「早くああして、こうして」って言うのよ。奴隷なんですよ、私《笑》。だからヒーヒー言いながら残りの半日仕事してるの《笑》。。
Marilyn Monroe is a frequent face that turns up in Sorayama’s work, a homage to the ultimate pin-up model.
You’ve been based in Gotanda for a while, in fact that’s where one of your studios is based. What are some places in Gotanda you visit often? Do you have any favorite spots?
スタジオのある五反田は歌舞伎町に次いで知る人ぞ知る夜の街として有名ですが、特にお気に入りスポットだったりはあったりしますか？
Actually, it wasn't that long ago. I've lived here for about 40 years now. It was more like a businessman's town, and there were some factories. Former factory sites were ideal for redevelopment, right? When the redevelopment work started, it was chaotic. So the image most people have of Gotanda now is of the last 10 years.
実は昔はそうでもなかったんだよ。もう40年ぐらいすんでるのかな？もっとサラリーマンの街っぽかったし、工場もあった。それで工場の跡地って再開発にもってこいじゃない？だから再開発工事が始まった頃はグチャグチャのカオスだったよ。だから今の五反田のイメージはここ10年の話です。
Why do you choose to keep your studio around Gotanda? Do you find it particularly inspirational?
五反田にスタジオを置き続けているのには特別な意味があるんですか？インスピレーションになる街だったりしますか？
I am not particularly inspired by Gotanda. It just has the advantage of being convenient and having good restaurants. On the contrary, I'm embarrassed to live in Gotanda [laughs]. It's called the Mecca of sex, isn't it? Please [laughs].
I have a few restaurants I like in Gotanda, and I also have a big atelier in Osaki, but I only eat and drink around those two bases. I don't trust food logs like “tabelog” [a popular food rating website/app in Japan]. They are just rumors, you know? Taste is a matter of personal preference, and I hate the idea of forcing my sense of taste onto others. Some people go to restaurants that are absurdly expensive or hard to reserve, but that’s foolish, and the same people deserve to be victims of the gastronomy industry. But it is sad that it is becoming a culture; to go out to eat based on other people's opinions and not based on one's own sense of taste.
特にインスピレーションを受けることはないです。ただただ便利で美味しいお店があるっていうメリットがあるってだけ。逆に五反田に住んでて恥ずかしい《笑》。セックスのメッカって言われてるんだろう？やめてくれよ《笑》。
五反田に行きつけのお店なんかもあって、大崎にも大きいアトリエがあるんだけど、その二拠点の周りでしか飲み食いしない。しかも食べログなんて信用してないからね。あんなもの人の噂でしかないじゃん？味覚なんて自分の好みだから、美味いという感覚を人に押し付けるようで大嫌い。予約が取れない店だとか値段が高いところは行きたい奴らで行って食い物されればいいんだよ。でも自分の味覚に軸足がなくて、人様の意見を聞いて食べに行くっていうのが文化になりつつあるのは悲しい。
A Sorayama collaboration with clothing label BAPE
Do you have any anime or manga you would recommend?
sabukaruでは一昔前まで子馬鹿にされていた漫画やアニメといったカルチャ―から、世間一般的に受け入れられているクールなものまで、様々なコミュニティに愛されるカルチャ―を発信しているんですが、空山さんご自身お勧めできる漫画などございましたら教えてください。
Nope, I don’t have any to share. On the contrary, if I say I like something, it negates the cartoonists I know who were not featured in it. That's why even the British and Japanese royal families can't answer the question, "What TV shows do you like?" I don't mean to boast about it, but it's not like I'm saying that. I don't say this to brag, but I am sort of somewhat of an influencer.
But to tell you the truth, I haven't read manga for about 10 years. The last one I read was by Akira Toriyama. He is really good at drawing women, and I really don't like people who draw badly. If the first thing I see is that the drawings are bad, it becomes noise and I can't enjoy them. It's the same with movies, music, and graphics. I get disgusted just by looking at the title backdrop of a movie that I can't help myself [laughs].
My daughters love "Dr. Slump Arale-chan [1981-1986]" and "Dragon Ball [1984-1995]," and a long time ago I got a job at Shounen Jump [A weekly serialized manga magazine]. I accepted, saying, "If you can get me Akira Toriyama's autograph," and I sent him my art book as well. Of course he knew who I was, but he drew a picture saying, "I want you to be my apprentice, Akira Toriyama” [laughs]. It is in the room over there. Toriyama-san doesn't usually draw pictures when I ask him to sign my book, but according to the Shueisha staff, this was the first time he drew me a colored picture. That was great, but my daughters didn't appreciate it. I was angry that I did something that was almost like power harassment to get it [laughs].
But he's really good. The way he made things interesting was on the same wavelength as me, on the level of a junior high school student. I haven't watched much after Toriyama-san. Just looking at manga and anime these days, I think, "Well, do what you want” [laughs].
When it comes to animation, I like the movie "Lilo & Stitch [2002]" the best. A long time ago, an art school teacher from Oklahoma came to interview me and asked, "Why are there so many Stitches?" He asked me. I told him that I liked Stitch, and he told me that some of his students were working for Disney Productions. I liked Stitch because it was the last hand-drawn animation at the time, before CG, and I could feel the warmth of the animation. When I told him about it, he said he would tell his students about it right away. I knew that when you put passion into something, it comes through. To hell with commercial animation!
ないです。逆に私が何か好きって言うと、それで取り上げられなかった知り合いの漫画家を否定することになるのよ。だからイギリスや日本の皇室なんかでも「どういったテレビ番組が好きですか？」っていう質問に答えられないのよ。自慢げに言うんじゃないけど、やっぱり多少のインフルエンサーだから。
でも本当のことを言うと、ここ10年ぐらい漫画を読んでない。最後に読んだのは鳥山明さん。やっぱり女の人を描かせても上手いし、本当に絵が下手くそな奴が嫌いなのよ。一番最初に絵が下手くそっていうのが目に入っちゃうと、それがノイズになって楽しめない体質なの。映画だったり音楽もそうだし、グラフィックも、どうしようもない映画のタイトルバック見ただけで嫌になっちゃうのよ。
うちの娘ちゃんたちが『Dr.スランプアラレちゃん[1981-1986]』とか『ドラゴンボール[1984-1995]』が好きで、ずっと前にジャンプの仕事が来て。「鳥山明さんのサインくれたらいいよ」って言って受けたんだけど、彼に私の画集も送って。当然彼も私のことを知ってたんだけど「弟子にしてほしい鳥山明」って描いてくれて《笑》。向こうの部屋にあるんだけど、鳥山さんって普通にサインを頼んでもあんまり絵を描いたりしないんだけど、集英社の人いわく、初めて色付きのものを描いてくれて。それは良かったんだけど、娘たちがありがたがらない。パワハラに近いようなことをやって手に入れたものなのに腹が立つ《笑》。
でも彼は本当に上手いね。車とか武器なんかもちゃんと掛けるし。ものの面白がりかたが中学生ぐらいのレベルで私と同じ波長だった。鳥山さん以降はあんまり見てないなあ。最近の漫画やアニメは見ただけで「まあ好きにしなさい」と思っちゃう《笑》。
アニメーションなんかで言うとディズニーの『リロ＆スティッチ[2002]』が一番好きで。一昔前にオクラハマから美術学校の先生がインタビューに来たんだけど「なんでスティッチがいっぱいあるんだ？」って聞かれたの。スティッチが好きなんだってことを伝えたら教え子の何人かがディズニー・プロダクションで働いてたみたいで。その当時アニメーションがCG化する前の最後の手書きの作品で、温かみを感じとれるから好きだったんだけど、その上に宇宙警察ジャンバの顔がaiboの顔によく似てたから私は勝手にオマージュだと信じ込んでて、素晴らしいと思ってたのよ。そのことを伝えたら「教え子にすぐ伝えます」って言ってくれて。やっぱり情熱がこもってると伝わるの。営利目的のアニメなんかクソ喰らえだよ。
What is your new exhibition at NANZUKA UNDERGROUND “Space Traveler” about, and what does it explore differently compared to your past successful solo shows?
新作個展「Space Traveler」はどういったことをテーマにされていますか？また、過去の個展と作品集と比べて、どういった思い入れがありますか？
Sorayama’s larger than life sized statue, a sneak peak from his upcoming exhibition “Space Traveler” at NANZUKA UNDERGROUND in Harajuku, as well as Tokyo venues 3110NZ by LDH kitchen and NANZUKA 2G.
The three-dimensional work will be a barrage of 5 to 6 larger than life sexy robot statues, and I plan to exhibit 5-6 large canvas paintings and some CG animations on the second floor. I would like the audience to have a simulated experience of entering a space where mirrors are placed on both sides, like a scene from the movie Alice in Wonderland [1951], and the entire surface of the mirrors is reflected to create the feeling of being a space traveler. The previous exhibition, SEX MATTER [2020], was about sex, but this time the theme is the futuristic nature of human beings. Three or four years ago, I created a 12-meter-long sculpture for the Dior show, so I think this time, visitors will be able to experience a life-size fantasy while at the exhibition space.
立体作品はセクシーロボットの像を5~6体ぐらいバーっと置く感じになるんですけど、それに加えて二階にキャンバス・ピースを5~6枚とCGで作ったアニメーションを展示する予定で。『不思議の国のアリス[1951]』に出てくるワンシーンみたいに両方にミラーを並べて、全面反射させたスペーストラベラーっていう空間の中に入っていく感じを演出する擬似体験を観客に味わってほしい。前回は『SEX MATTER[2020]』っていう性をテーマにした展示会だったんですけど、今回は人間の未来性をテーマにしてて。つまり捏造ですよね。3~4年前はディオールのショーで12メートルぐらいのものを造ってたので、今回は等身大のファンタジーを味わえると思いますよ。
Do you have any models for the girls in painting?
女性のセクシーロボットの作品を物凄い数作られてきたと思うんですけど、やはり特定の人物をモデルにされているんですか？
Basically, I base them on prints and photos I see. It would take too much money and time to do it myself from scratch, so I sample everything out there. If I were to use the analogy once again of comparing someone who appreciates women to a gourmet, I would say that the taste of one's mother's food that one grew up eating is something that cannot be surpassed, isn't it? In the same way [when it comes to the women who I base my art off of] I was shocked by the neighborhood sisters I grew up with and the actresses in the movies of the time when I was a teenager. I guess I was brainwashed by “the 3 S’s”. After the end of World War II, when Japan was occupied by the U.S. military, the 3Ss were used as a means of brainwashing: Sex, Screen, and Sports. In my case, I was a captive of the screens.
It's a mishmash of people, but the common denominator is people with moles around their mouths. I'm still attracted to it, and all of my sexy robots have moles. It's sort of my symbol, and it's also a memory of Michiyo Aratama, who I was attracted to as a child, or famous Hollywood actresses. That was something erotic and still has an effect on me.
基本的には印刷や写真をベースに作ってる。一から自分でやろうと思うとお金と時間がかかり過ぎちゃうから、そこらのものを全部サンプリングしてる。特定の人物というか、グルメに置き換えて言うと、自分が食べて育ったおふくろの味って越えられないものじゃない？それと同じで私は近所のお姉さんたちや当時の映画に出てた女優さんたちに衝撃を受けた。だから第二次世界大戦が終わった後の日本は米軍に占領されてたけど、その際に洗脳手段として3Sが使われてたの：セックスとスクリーン、それからスポーツ。私なんかの場合はスクリーンの虜だったね。
色んな人の寄せ集めにはなるんだけど、共通してるのが口元にほくろがある人。未だに惹かれるんだけど、私が描いたセクシーロボットには全部ほくろが入ってますよ。ある種、私のシンボルマークでもあるし、幼少期に惹かれた新珠美千代さんだったり、ハリウッドの有名女優さんの記憶。それが何だかエロチックで、未だに私に影響がありますね。
Do you have advice for youth who are willing to enter the creative world?
最後にこれからを担う若者、クリエーターを目指す人々に向けて一言アドバイスお願いします。
Don’t even bother [laughs]. It is no easy task making a living as an artist. The people you see thriving, got to be where they are by a miraculous chance. It's completely fantasy. Athletes and musicians are no different, and everyone aspires to be one, but it's not possible. Talent is made by whether you can continue something until you die. If you are painting, you don't have to make money or have social status. If you like something, you will continue it no matter what they do to you. But there are far too many people who have yet to make anything out of themselves, even after death, and I feel so sorry, you know. That’s why I tell people to quit as early as possible. People who really want to won’t quit even after being told so. So proceed how you wish, but I recommend you quit.
早いうちにやめなさい《笑》。アーティストとして生き延びるのは大変なのよ。トップの人たちは~百万分の一の確立で生き延びてるだけで、それはファンタジー。憧れだけじゃなれない。スポーツ選手もミュージシャンも然り、みんな憧れるけどそうなれるものじゃない。結局才能は死ぬまで続けられるかどうかなのよ。お金儲けとか社会的地位みたいな邪念があるけど、好きな人はどんなことがあろうと続けられる。ただ死んだ後も全然ものにならなかった人もいっぱいいるし、それは気の毒に思うから私は早めにやめなさいっていうの。でも逆に「やめなさい」ってストレスかけると本気な人はちゃんと残るのよ。だから早いうちにやめることをお勧めします。
What’s your craziest memory? Do you put that into your work?
I’ve never put crazy thoughts or ideas into my work. And I can’t talk about my craziest experience. I got a wife, kids, and grandkids. If you guys talk about yours, I might hahaha bakayaro!!!!
ありません。クレイジーな経験は言えません。女房、子供、孫がいるから《笑》。あんたたちの言うんだったら私も言うよ《笑》。馬鹿な質問するんじゃない、この馬鹿野郎《笑》！
Words by Ora Margolis
Interview by Ken Kitamura, Ora Margolis, Jasmina Mitrovic, Adrian Bianco
Selected Photos by Nathalie Scarlette
Translation by Ken Kitamura, Millie Lagares, Sara Hirayama
Edited by Ken Kitamura and Ora Margolis
Special thanks to Hanna Kita, Hiroko Okawa, and Shinji Nanzuka.
